David Rubinstein: Traditionally, sports teams in the professional world have been owned by men, but now, increasingly, women are owning these teams as well.
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One of the most influential these owners is Clara Wu Tsai, who is a co-owner of the Brooklyn Nets and a co-owner of the New York Liberty. And she helped the New York Liberty get to a championship. The WNBA. Sports, community and ownership
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CWT. Absolutely not: I could never have dreamed it.First of all, whoever thinks that they're going to have enough money to, you know, to buy an NBA team.But especially me because I was the daughter of immigrants, professors from Taiwan. So, it never crossed my mind2 minutes, 11 seconds
What is the life of a sports owner like? I mean, is it more fun than you thought it would be? Or is it more aggravation than you thought it would be? 3:25
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DR And why did he want to sell a partial interest?3:28
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CWT The owner? I don't know how much of it was his own decisions or that he felt ity inevitable. But the fact that there was a path to majority control and a path to be able to own an arena "Barclay Center") made the Brooklyn Nets particularly attractive to us. Let me tell you why it was so important to us to have majority control. It goes back to being a decision maker3:54
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I think that, you know, for us, when you have majority control, you can make decisions and you can set the direction and, uh, set a vision for the company. And for us, that meant, you know, like,how it played out was we were able to get into women's sports and buy a WNBA team. 5:21
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DR Now, did you say to your husband, look, uh, you can focus more on the Brooklyn Nets? Let me focus more on the New York Liberty. Is that how you divide it up or not?5:29
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CWT Well, I think at one point it just naturally seemed that I would take the lead on the New York Liberty. There was a point when I realized that owning the team, it was it meant to me. It was more than basketball.Right? But it was also about increasing the visibility of women and giving women more opportunity.And so, um, it was something that I felt a personal connection to, and I could tell that story authentically. So we just decided that was a pretty good division of labor6:DR
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. Now, when you bought the New York Liberty, you personally got involved in helping to turn the team around.What were the steps you took to really enhance the team?6:07
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CWT People do ask, what were the moves we made to improve the team and to take it to a championship level, because it happened pretty quickly.Like within five years we won a championship.The most important and first move that we made was to move the team from Westchester County Center to Barclays Center.After that, we started to invest and we invested in player health and performance. We invested in management talent and we invested in facilities. Then we recruited a team that could compete, and that started with recruiting the top free agent in 2023,Breanna Stewart. And at the same time that this was happening, uh, the marketing team was busy thinking about the fan experience.6:54
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And so we built an experience in the arena that was frankly rooted in the culture of Brooklyn. So all of the fan experience and you know, the music and the dance and the art around, what goes on in the fan experience was really Brooklyn related Since Brooklyn is so artsy, you know, it naturally sort of had a cool factor, and the players themselves are not as highly compensated as I think the men's teams are.But there's been a challenge about that.7:20
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DR And is that been resolved in terms of compensation and so forth? 7:25
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is it reflects an incredible confidence in the commercial potential, um, of this8:24
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business. And the story isn't written right, that we know that there's a lot to do. The economics need to mature.8:30
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Uh, but, uh, if things continue to proceed along the trajectory that we think that it will, it can be a really powerful proof of concept for other8:40
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women's sports, meaning, um, you know, you can sustain a business and you can also sustain player compensation at a rate that allows them to make a good8:49
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living. So, um, you put a lot of time and energy into it. You got to know the players pretty well and you won a championship. Yeah.8:57
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So what was it like winning a championship? I think a joy that makes any other business success that I've had, you9:05
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know, um, pale in comparison. Um, I think you you experience, you taste it. It is so sweet that you automatically feel like you want to do it again.Chapter 6: Players, ownership and team culture
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You know, the WNBA players sometimes, like the NBA players, are very public about their positions on political or other economic issues has been a10:06
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challenge for you as a WNBA owner to kind of deal with players who are publicly visible on certain issues that may or may not be similar to yours.10:15
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We've been very clear that we support our players and their ability to express10:23
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themselves, but we do in New York, you know, we live in a very diverse community with very many different points of view.10:30
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We want players to be able to express themselves, but we also want to set an environment where, um, that there's, you know, we encourage dialogue, um,10:40
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conversation and really respectful conversation if there are differing points of view. You are pretty involved in player selection or other kinds of things. Now with the, uh, with the team.10:51
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It's very important when you're an owner, uh, to hire the best executive talent that you can, um, on the business side and also on the business operations side. So your CEO and your general manager.11:05
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You know, I think for an owner, it's really important to create an environment where players want to be and players want to be at a place where they feel valued and where they think they can win.11:15
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So that's my job, is to just create an environment where players can be the best basketball players they can be, and how close to you get to the players.11:23
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And I noticed that sometimes owners think they shouldn't get too close because they might trade these players, and it's difficult if you become too close to them socially. Do you get to know the players or how close to you get to these, uh, players on your WNBA team?11:35
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You know, in sports, it is true. Your roster is always changing, so it actually limits how close you can get to a player.11:43
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Um, we're very fortunate that in this last year, our core team, uh, decided to11:49
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stay together with us. So, um, it's it's just it's a blessing and a joy for, you know, our staff, but also our fans, uh, to be able to have that continuity, uh, because we know them and love those players so much.Chapter 7: Growing up in Kansas and early career
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You know, I think you want to make sure that they know that you value them and you know you are there to support them. But you know, you also aren't there.12:13
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You aren't there to, like, be a part of every aspect of their daily lives. So let's talk about your background for a moment.12:20
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You grew up in Kansas. Your your parents were both academics at the University of Kansas? No, my, um, my dad was a professor of econometrics at the University of Kansas.12:31
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Uh, my mom got a master's in math at the University of Wisconsin, but she sacrificed her career for the family. So you grew up in what city?12:40
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That I grew up in Lawrence, Kansas. Home of the Kansas Jayhawks. And were you a basketball fan as a girl, a huge fan?12:46
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Uh, and that was also what brought the community together so early on.12:51
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I recognized the impact that sports can have on a community, and I think that influences the way that I think about what it means to be a sports owner12:59
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today. But yeah, I think, um, you know, you remember because, um, you know, your alma mater, Duke, is also a perennial contender, uh, in the championships for the NCAA basketball tournament.13:11
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Uh, but Kansas, when I was growing up, uh, you know, uh, was making it to the Final Four pretty regularly. I went to school with Danny Manning, and, uh, just was such a great fan of, um, of the Jayhawks.13:24
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So when you were growing up, I assume you're a reasonably good student. Your parents were academics, like you did well enough to go to Stanford.13:30
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What did you major in? I majored in international relations, uh, because it was an interdisciplinary degree, and it gave me the flexibility to study politics and economics, history, international affairs.13:42
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And I could pretty much create my own course of study.13:44
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And what did you do after you graduated? So I went to a consulting firm called Windermere Associates. It was in San Francisco, and it was13:52
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started by a McKinsey partner and this consulting firm, uh, specialized in consulting to companies in uh, industries in over capacity.14:03
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And then. And then I went to Harvard Business School. When I graduated, I went to New York and I worked for the New York Times, and then I worked for American Express.14:12
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It felt like another good place to be a training ground.14:15
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And I quickly learned, though, that corporate culture wasn't really that interesting to me, and that I was a lot happier when I was building something and creating something new, even within the organization.14:27
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So I, I just felt like I was a lot more entrepreneurial.14:32
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And, uh, that led me to, uh, go work for Tarbell, uh, which is the CDC e-commerce14:39
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site that was started by Alibaba. And when I went there, I started the first, uh, cross-border sales channel and enlisted Hong Kong sellers to sell to mainland consumers. And that was highly entrepreneurial.14:52
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And you could see your results in real time, because if you made a single change, you could see what the result was on your gross merchandise volume. And I found that really liberating and exciting.15:02
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Now, did your parents live to see your success? I realize your father passed away not too long ago. But for a while, both of them saw your success.15:10
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Uh, what did they tell you? My father was alive when we won the championship. And he was.15:15
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He watched the finals on TV, and he he I know he saw me hoist that trophy, and I. So I think they were very there, very proud.Chapter 8: Sports as a business and family legacy
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So are you interested in buying other sports teams? I would say yes, but selectively, as you know, sports has become like a, you know, a legit, a legitimate asset class.15:36
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And they've become very good investments. And you know, who knew that we needed to develop you know, an anti I you know.15:43
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And who knew that um live experiences would become so valuable.15:48
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You know, who knew that uh, something that was unscripted and unpredictable and was something that, uh, caused people to come together in a shared experience would be something uh, that was monetizable and also really valued.16:02
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But that in, in fact has happened. And live sports is, um, a place where that can all be manifest in and to do to your children.16:11
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Say to you, Mom and Dad, don't do anything bad to the team because we want to inherit the team and we want to run it ourselves.16:18
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So make sure you keep keep it for a long time and make sure you keep it successful. So you intend to keep it in your family?16:23
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Yeah, I, we intend to, um, you know, have this asset, uh, be with our family. Yes.16:30
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For, for generations. And so we are stewards of it, and we try to take care of it, and we tell them that, you know, they need to take care16:37
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of it as well. Uh, but you know what I say to them, if they want to be a part of the sports organization, that they need to learn a skill that's valued in the sports business.16:51
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So whether that's, um, data analytics or, um, um, media rights or negotiation17:01
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or deal structuring, uh, you know, they, um, they should learn that, uh, because, uh, sports is an emotional business. It is for for fans, at least.17:12
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But on the business side, it really requires and rewards expertise.17:18
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If you look back on your life, what are you most amazed that that all of this happened? I could never have imagined it.17:25
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You have to be very curious. You have to be very open to opportunities. You can work hard, but there's also a lot of luck involved.Chapter 9: Success, humility and philanthropy
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As you look back on your life. What are you most amazed that that all of this happened? I could never have imagined it.17:55
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You have to be very curious. You have to be very open to opportunities. You have to see things in front of you and think where you might be able to make your own individual difference in the opportunity set that's presented to you.18:09
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How you and your husband, who I also know.18:11
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Um, you know, to retain your humility, which is off them when you have the kind of wealth that you have and the success, very often you see people in that situation not be that humble. So how do you retain humility?18:22
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Is that part because of your background and raised in the way you were raised by your parents? Absolutely.18:27
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My parents, um, it was pretty hard. You know, they left Taiwan to come to a country where they didn't speak the language very well.18:34
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And back in the 60s, just imagine the kind of perhaps discrimination that they might have faced. Because the kids grew up in San Diego.18:41
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They were we were living in quite close proximity to my parents.18:45
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And so my kids were very aware of the way, uh, my, my parents lived and still lived. Talk about your own, I'd say philanthropic activities, which are the principal ones?18:55
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Well, there's three main pillars. I would say, um, science, um, art and culture and social justice. And my general approach across the board19:06
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is to find some sort of unmet need and apply a innovative, evidence based19:12
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solution that's very impact oriented. And you do it in the New York metropolitan area or parts of the country, or the social justice work is,19:21
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um, concentrated in Brooklyn. And by the way, that was one of the reasons that, uh, Brooklyn was attractive to us.19:28
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Soon after we bought the teams, we committed to a social justice fund, which was a $50 million, ten year commitment to, um, economic mobility,19:39
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uh, in Brooklyn. And now we're five years through that ten year commitment, and we've supported hundreds of businesses, uh, small businesses and entrepreneurs through, um, access to capital.19:50
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So grants, loans, tech accelerators, equity investments.19:55
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We've used every form of, uh, you know, to every, every20:02
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tool and every of, of capital that we, we've, um, that's available, uh, to support these entrepreneurs and founders.20:10
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Uh, and we've also, uh, you know, we run, uh, we've refurbished basketball courts in, uh, areas with high rates of gun violence.Chapter 10: Human performance and the future of women’s sports
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So in your philanthropy, you've done a lot of work with human, uh, performance. Uh, what are you interested in? And why do you give money to that area?20:26
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So the Human Performance Alliance is a scientific research initiative that is focused on understanding, uh, performance.20:35
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So how the body, uh, moves, adapts, fatigues and recovers, uh, over time.20:42
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And, you know, the reason that we started this is because, you know, as sports team owners, we realize that there is so little that we understand about the human body. Even at the highest levels.20:54
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Most health research is focused on disease, and we study performance. And that is how the body operates when it's at its very best.21:05
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So the goal is, um, not just scientific discovery, but it's also translation.21:12
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So what? Uh, you know, what can the science tell us and what kind of tools and therapies and, um, techniques and training21:21
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protocols can we learn from this science that will not only help athletes, uh, perform better and recover faster and extend their careers, but what can we learn that will help them but will also help all of us?21:33
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Eventually? The main opportunities that we are focused on right now in the Human Performance Alliance are injury prevention. So preventing injuries before they21:42
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happen and, uh, personalized training and recovery so personalized according21:48
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to your individual biology. And also closing the data gap on female21:54
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athlete physiology. Because for the past few decades, most of the research in sports science has been conducted on men prevention,22:03
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Prediction and, uh, women's health. Uh, those are the frontiers of human performance. What gives you the greatest pleasure22:11
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now? Being a successful parent, owning a successful sports team. Being a successful philanthropist, what22:17
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gives you the greatest pleasure? And what's the greatest, uh, challenge in life for you now? I can't choose, uh, one of the three22:24
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because they all give me immense joy. And I do think variety is the spice of life. And I think it's wonderful to have, um, a breadth of things in your life that are giving you joy.22:35
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I would say for the New York Liberty, uh, we won one championship, but I would like the team to have some, you know, enduring success.22:45
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So I would like to, uh, win another championship and set a culture of, um,22:51
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excellence, uh, that, you know, that will withstand the test of time more broadly for women's sports. I think we are at an inflection point,23:02
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and I would really like to see women's sports teams, uh, become a scaled, sustainable, uh, durable and profitable business.23:14
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So as you look back on your career, which has been very successful, is there anything you wish you would have done differently?23:20
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I just want to make sure that, um, you know, I show and express my appreciation23:27
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to, um, all the people and all the opportunities, uh, because you can work23:33
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hard, but there's also a lot of luck involved, a lot of things that are outside of your control that need to go your way.23:40
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And so I think being very grateful, um, for when luck comes your way, I think that's part of it, is working hard and making most of your opportunities.23:50
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But knowing that you a lot of it was not in your control. You.
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